Asymmetrical haircuts and ironic clothing just not your thing? If the prostelizations coming out of the Church of How Indie Rock Will Save Concert MusicTM leave you cold, perhaps it’s time to look elsewhere.
With faces as straight as Stephen Colbert, the gentlemen of HGPÂ take a few cues from their hometown club scene, slide everything off the table, and throw down. Destined to be the #1 Hot Summer (New Music) Jam of 2008, come on, boyz, shake it up (but watch your language).
The real question is: Who’s going to throw down the “Ether” to HGP’s “Takeover”?
Molly says: I, for one, cannot wait to find out. Though personally, I’m hoping for a Natalie Portman-style response from Claire Chase.
I have to admit that this is roughly 1,000x more entertaining than Ice-T vs. Soulja Boy.
“In the grand tradition of the great hip-hop conflicts like Tupac v. Biggie Smalls, Dr. Dre v. Eazy-E, and 50 Cent v. Kanye West, “HGP Anthem†brings some much needed antagonism to a new music genre more accustomed to passive aggressive behind-the-back cattiness than drive-bys and street corner stompings.
“By droppin’ this track we’re showing all these new music fakers who the real playaz are,†say Sacawa and Spangler. “It’s like we’re telling everyone, ‘Yo, we’re hot, and you’re not,’ you feel us? Like, y’all need to get out of the game. Plus, we need to show love for Bmore, you know what we’re sayin’?â€
You know, I actually talk a lot about hip hop both past and present with the artists I collaborate with. Much of my music draws on hip hop (go to my MySpace page if you need clarification or are wondering who the hell I am…) And I understand you’re trying to be funny – I get it. Sort of. But the references to “drive bys and street corner stompings…” and the “irony” of two well educated “white” composers trying to sound “black” is at least embarrassing if not downright offensive.
I mean, a poet I worked with last summer in a performance (funded by Meet the Composer) was shot in a robbery attempt shortly afterwards (he’s recovering still). The “irony” is that we presented a collaborative arrangement of the old song “Stagger Lee” – the original O.G.
Maybe I’m just sad that this is about all I can expect from my “peers” in the “new music community.” There’s no real dialog happening between supposedly disparate genres or cultures. We just cherry pick stereotypes and spin them in the form of an online joke not meant to do anything except draw attention to ourselves.
Molly replies: Chris, I think you might be missing the comment they are making about the sometimes funny collaborations, othertimes tragically misunderstood appropriations of other music scenes that have been influencing this field (i.e. new music meets the indie rockers). Also, you have dialog, yet you assume they do not and are just cherry picking. You’re imposing a superiority complex on the artists that is quite the opposite from the position they’re actually coming from, but maybe that’s just the danger of the Internet.
“You’re imposing a superiority complex on the artists that is quite the opposite from the position they’re actually coming from…”
In describing my own work, I was trying to put my emotional reaction to the HGB preamble and “rap” into some kind of context, the hope being that I would not come off as someone with a “superiority complex.”
My reaction was my own. Obviously other people will have very different feelings about the HGB rap in its preamble and think it’s funny and even smart commentary on (as you describe it) “this scene.” Right on. I don’t speak for anyone else.
Hey Baltimore,
Whassup with Alsop? Marin, I mean. She ain’t carin’ ’bout nothin’ but robber barons. Those corporate funders use their plunders to underwrite the great white wonders. ‘cept Marin kinda likes McFerrin.
Hollaback.
And forgive my use of apostrophes.
i haven’t decided if ASM wasn’t name checked because we’re not a big enough name or because we’ve collaborated with an actual rap group and somebody’s arse might get kicked… doh!
I have to say, I side with Chris for the most part. While I highly respect the duo’s music and its interesting aesthetic, I don’t think a hip hop battle parody should go without criticism. On the other hand, I imagine a lot of the real hip hop feuds are exaggerated for hype and are almost as comical as this one, but others are pretty real (i.e. Tupac and Biggie…). Making fun of the hip hop feud is just part of making fun of the new music scene–which I applaud–I just wouldn’t feel comfortable referencing hip hop, considering its cultural and socioeconomic origins, in this type of classical music discourse, considering its own cultural/socioeconomic climate. (Don’t get me wrong, I think there are countless possibilities for fusing hip hop and contemporary classical musically, and I’m looking forward to hearing them, or taking part in them, as time goes on.) As Molly wrote, the net can send the wrong messages accidentally, and I’d like to read more from the duo but can’t find too much on their site.
Slavoj Žižek writes, “Perhaps, nothing expresses better the inconsistency of the post-political liberal project than its implicit paradoxical identification of culture and nature, the two traditional opposites: culture itself is naturalized, posited as something given.”
He goes on to argue that the degree of equal-opportunity mockery (notwithstanding self-mockery) is the only definitive measure of genuine tolerance and multiculturalism.
Žižek has to be taken with a grain of salt because he often says outrageous things off the cuff. But I think there’s something to his point, that when we are comfortable enough to make fun of each other across cultural barriers (which are not natural, btw), that means, ironically, that we have achieved a mutual respect.
Thoughts?
Actually, I don’t think there’s much of an assault on the new music status quo here. The unconvincing attempt to anchor a moribund ‘scene’ in some kind of pop-cultural caché, despite the fact that said ‘scene’ is so thoroughly convinced of its intrinsic superiority that it rarely really learns anything substantive from outside its genre, is straight out of the alarm-will-sound cookbook. Plus it reeks of the kind of naîve ‘slummin’ that has made bourgeoise artists look silly and effete ever since Mendelssohn quoted all that fake scottish folk music. And the Marin Alsop contribution just makes me downright depressed. I mean, c’mon, guys… can’t we do better?
As opposed to hiphop beef, which is all about shaking up the genre.
Anyway, to the extent that the “HGP Anthem” is “assaulting” anything, it’s the joyless, pretentious, self-important attitudes evidenced by some on this thread. People need to lighten up and kick back with the new Lil’ Wayne, which is, you know, fun. Remember “fun”?
Anonymous Biff, I accept your critique of my Alsop ditty and agree wholeheartedly that it is depressing on many levels. It was a joke, and a poorly executed one at that!
However, I hope you are not projecting your own worries about moribundity and effeteness on the new music scene at large. I thought we had moved past projections of our impending doom, and although I understand your disenchantment with groups like Alarm Will Sound, I don’t think you should use those judgments to proclaim any and all attempts at genre-blending inept.
If my depressing contribution earlier put you in a state of despair, I apologize.
Corey, I’d like to read that Zizek article. What is it called? That’s a very interesting quotation to bring up in this context. Having not read the whole thing, it’s a bit hard to critique it, but I’m inclined to challenge his idea that culture is not naturalized to some degree. Culture is of course not inherent or a priori, but before we’re even forming memories we are assimilating into the culture in which we’re brought up. Maybe that’s his point; I don’t know.
In terms of musical genre, I think hip hop culture is so commodified at this point that most (but not all) MCs and DJs find it difficult to escape the stereotypical mold of who society thinks they should be. I’ve stopped using the word classical in any description of what I do because it binds me to centuries of cultural and musical history I don’t personally identify with at all.
Apparently HGP feels comfortable making fun of hip hop across the cultural barrier, but I don’t think most hip hop artists are doing the same thing, which makes the two-way street that Zizek describes currently unbuilt.
Here we seem to have our own battle of who’s more pretentious, which is pretty funny in itself. Those in favor of the parody aren’t pretentious, but might not be taking seriously the cultural differences, whether actual fact or societally imposed fiction; and those like me not in favor might be taking this whole thing too seriously. I don’t think either side should be so presumptive that it’s right–but like I wrote earlier, anyone in favor of the parody should be open to criticism. That it’s funny, or fun, is not solely enough to legitimize it.
Yes—loosen up and have some fun. Sometimes we can all be a little too uptight with our music. I enjoyed this very much. Thanks Molly for sharing this.
“pop-cultural cacheâ€
What’s wrong with that? Just because the music we do isn’t a part of pop-culture infers that we shouldn’t present it as such? Pop-culture surrounds us, we live in it, whether we like it or not. I don’t believe in gimmicks or genuine “selling-out†but there is something useful to learn from pop-culture. I say kudos to HGP for having some fun with our scene.
“the fact that said ‘scene’ is so thoroughly convinced of its intrinsic superiorityâ€
It’s a fact?? Thank you Corey for your response, I don’t think it can be said enough right now. I too thought we have arrived at the notion that new (____) music is part of larger musical landscape in this country and is no more inferior or superior to other styles of music. Being out of school for the past two years has given me so much perspective. It seems to me that some mentalities in schools can be stuck in the dark corners of the 20th century iconoclastic attitudes of despair. Let’s spread the word.
so what do folks think about say, “amish paradise?” i mean, it’s a white, middle-class guy using rap to make fun of the amish and coolio. i’m starting to get the feeling from the naysayers that white folks shouldn’t rap because it’s not “our” culture. and we shouldn’t make fun of gang warfare, because it actually happens and it sucks. and if we rap we shouldn’t try to sound like rappers, i.e., black, because that’s not respecting the genre, it’s making fun of black people. is it possible that by rapping about new music rivalries, they are actually demonstrating how ridiculous that kind of behavior is? would it really make a difference if these guys were not well-educated and white? what about the beastie boys? 3rd bass? matisyahu? what if they were well-educated and black? maybe DBR should cover this tune? chuck d? if a genre becomes popular outside the regions of its origin, are the people on the outside allowed to be influenced by it? to parody it? i’m all for criticizing, but what exactly is the problem?
First off, I’m really not sure how you listened to that track and came away with the idea that Brian and Erik were “making fun of hip hop.” (For the record, this is making fun of hiphop. Notice the difference?)
I guess you missed this ad?
Also, what Andrea said. Seriously.
Molly adds: I would kick in here that Erik is a white DJ (no stereotypes to fight there!) and a music teacher in the Baltimore city schools, so I suspect he confronts and thinks about these issues more often than most and quite deeply. I see where the concerns brought up are coming from and I don’t want to speak for the guys, but in this case I would have to say it was a case of celebrating some musical heroes, getting deeper into a genre already greatly admired through experimentation, and having a little post-practice creative summer fun.
I always thought the stereotype of classical music was that it was the audience that was humorless and demanded concerts be declared NO FUN ZONES, not its creators, and definitely not the creators on the younger side of the spectrum. Thanks for the corrective! Now people can widen the stereotype so that everyone is uncool! Way to go!
funny, speaking of commericials, i thought of one that makes me existentially squirm for the following reasons:
3) it seems inauthentic (which i realize is an enormous can of worms, but i’m mentioning it as an example of my kneejerk reaction, since i, too, am not kneejerk-free)
2) it culls together the worst stereotypes of caribbean culture
1) it contains some of the worst text setting i’ve heard in a long time. the biggest culprit is the phone number they want you to remember, and you will remember it, because it’s catchy by way of being so poorly set and so annoyingly delivered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Xf0XvnQeE
i’m bringing this up, because i feel like the way i react to this is the way some people seem to be reacting to the HGP joint, which i feel is rather innocuous. but then, someone out there probably feels this commercial is rather innocuous. i don’t know. a colleague of mine teaches math at a high-school for recent immigrants (with a sizable caribbean population) and he’s been purposefully making up various equations for them to solve in class in which the answer is the phone number from this ad, much to their amusement. (he agrees that it’s a horrendous commercial, but points out that the ad clearly works, because everyone knows the phone number).
Well, HGP called for more beef, and they’re getting it.
Wow – yes, the MC Rove video is awful and is in its own league no doubt.
I’m reluctant to dig myself an even deeper hole, as I think we’re going to continue to disagree in general here, but regarding the ad, I have seen it, and even blogged about it (as Marc G. knows, because I also offended him in that post). In that ad, a giant corporation (Vitamin Water, which is part of Glaceau, which is part of Coke) paid 50 Cent to act in an ad that made fun of Beethoven and the symphonic tradition–I don’t find that analogous to two new music makers offering a hip hop parody full of inside jokes. If MCs are donning all black and imitating spectral music or new complexity, PLEASE let me know.
Much as I may have misinterpreted the HGP’s intentions, my opposition to this parody for very particular reasons has nothing to do with a generalized humorless position, which some have inferred. (Marc, I never perceived that composers, or performers, were free from the general classical stereotypes. In my personal experience, it’s been pretty hard to free myself from those stereotypes.) Weird Al has made a career out of making fun of everyone and everything. So has Sarah Silverman. I’m sure they’ve offended plenty of people, but they’ve amused many others. Yeah, I do think we all have the right to express ourselves however we want, and no, I don’t think we should remain compartmentalized in our respective fields; if you choose means of expression like this, you’ve got to be ready to take a little heat from those with strong opinions about it, and so far, it appears that HGP are happy to do so, and I’m guessing they’re enjoying reading threads like these.
Having recently read some compelling articles on race, particularly Barbara Fields’ take on race as ideology, I should say that I did not, and would not, extrapolate racial polarities from cultural/socioeconomic differences between musical genres. My criticism is about history and class.
Maybe you all will read my blog now because you know you’ll have some critiques…
You know that 50 Cent owns a big stake in Glaceau, right? (The ad was shot pre-Coke buyout.) He even had them introduce a flavor named after him (“Formula 50”). This isn’t just some random celebrity endorsement.
And we could spend all day talking about other examples of hiphop artists referencing/satirizing stereotypes about classical music and classical musicians, but really, this whole thing is deeply silly. Hiphop is mainstream American culture. It has been for a long time. At this point, it belongs to everybody, to use or abuse as they see fit. Judge the results, not the creators’ identities.
Wait a minute – what are we all sitting around earnestly being offended by now?
Rhyming over beats is fun. HGP had a funny idea and they executed it well. I am waiting for Kronos (or someone) to ether them.
Wow. I just returned to this thread not knowing that some discussion had developed…
“…i’m starting to get the feeling from the naysayers that white folks shouldn’t rap because it’s not “our” culture. and we shouldn’t make fun of gang warfare, because it actually happens and it sucks. and if we rap we shouldn’t try to sound like rappers, i.e., black, because that’s not respecting the genre, it’s making fun of black people.”
I don’t think my, Biff or Mr. Bacon’s posts said anything remotely like the above. Are we the naysayers you are referring to? We generated a little heat – but there’s more nuance to what we posted than is being acknowledged.
I collaborate musically with black as well as white folks. I’m blessed in the course of 10 years in NYC to have tapped into a very diverse network of artists here in NYC many of whom have met each other as a result of my projects. And race is an issue that gets talked about a LOT on and off the bandstand. It may be that my reaction is coming from a breadth of experience Andrea and DJA simply do not share. Which is no big deal until you mangle what it is I’m saying, throw it up on a blog and/or tell “the naysayers” to “relax” and “have fun.”
I lived in New Orleans before relocating to NYC so believe me, I know how to have fun.
Again, we generated a little heat. But I don’t read anything that smacks of dishonesty or a phony sort of political correctness.
Admittedly, the issue of “new music” events uncomfortably grafting pop and “urban” sensibilities into their PR is not really on my radar. There is a disconnect between my work here and NYC and the work of many of the New Yorkers posting here (i.e. we don’t go to each other’s concerts and don’t socialize). So I can accept that HGP’s premise sort of went over my head.